Vampire - Initial PC Idea - Dennis'

[#1!]

Right. Very rough idea, so keep that in mind.

I'm thinking an executioner. Hangman, headsman, both or whatever. Whatever he uses, he kills for the state. I'm thinking he works for a provincial lord, perhaps of a backwater, maybe from a moderately populated city/whatever. Most probably French. He's never been outside of his country ever and doesn't know jack-fuckin'-shit about the rest of the world. He's pretty loyal to his government, especially to the King/Queen/Ruler. He treats his job as just a governmental service. He's not cruel or malicious about it, doesn't bathe in a bathtub full of baby blood or anything. That, coupled with that he's fairly religious, makes him see what he does for a living not to be murder. After all, only the BAD people get executed, right? And, hey, they're going to die anyway, right? Bad people don't need money and stuff. Neither do dead people. Therefore, dead bad people's stuff is totally up for grabs. He asks for tips from his "clients" and then takes the rest once the job's been done.

What makes him exceptional is that he's got a bit of a reputation (local, provincial, possibly even national). He executed a LOT of people in a short time, or killed off a ton of innocent people at the behest of his lord/employer, something like that. He's got names like "the mad dog of PLACE" or "bloody NAME," that kinda thing. The public sees him as a psycho, a murderer, and a souless mercenary killing for profit. Suffice it to say, he's not exactly the most well-liked fella...anywhere.

I'm seeing his virtue as being Justice and his vice being Greed. Then again, I didn't give the lista terribly good look over recently, so if someone has suggestions for better suiting traits, shoot.

Also, if not exceptional enough, that coo, just say. Same with fitting it with the rest of the party, what-have-yah.

[Tromador]

On the subject of "tips", it was actually pretty normal for the condemned to give the axeman a nice tip. The idea was that by paying off the executioner, he would make sure the axe was sharp and so on, making a quick clean job of it.

[#1!]

Yeah, I know. But I doubt it was normal for the executioner to swipe everything else the bugger had, kinda thing.

[Tromador]

No - probably not

Don't forget that in medieval times, the dude's missus was pretty much of a possession

[^^Truth]

Uhm. Hmm.

Trying to think how to write out my initial thoughts, I guess I'll list 'em, that's easier.

1. It's unlikely that he'll have ever been able to steal *insert name*'s money, because it'd go to the wife, magistrate, local baron/ruler or church. Not in that order.

2. Slightly concerned about a possible 3 PCs all with "justice".

3. Also concerend that he's just a head-chopper, thus no one of importance. Not being of importance isn't the end of the world really, but it does make things harder for me (although possible to wipe out).

4. Concerned the description includes no personality, other than "chops people's heads off" and "steals stuff".

5. Chopping loads of people's heads off in a short space of time doesn't make him exceptional or whatever, because he was told to do it. It makes the person who told him exceptional. He just did as ordered. I am sure the peasants think he's a total cunt mind you.

*NOT* chopping the heads off as he was ordered would make him standout from the other executioners and perhaps THAT would call for him to have *justice*.

6. Being religious (in this time period) and thinking it's okay to rob the dead is a rather bizarre combination. It's like a burglar believing in justice.

If you want to go the whole "i killz peopels 4 g0ld" idea, would it not be best to be a magistrate, landowner or inquisitor type? Insert corrupt in any of those three is required. Those all condem men to death, which is on the same lines, but impartially chopping heads off doesn't mean much really.

If you want to keep with the idea. It can work but needs some changes, such as.

Royal Executioner perhaps. Would at least raise his status in the world from unknown to heard of.

Witch Hunter/Inquisitor. Capture, trail, execute. Everything in one neat package. That way you can be hated for killing a whole load of innocent people. However there's no way you can take "justice" if that remains the case, perhaps Faith or Fortitude instead. A man of the cloth could also sieze belongings if he deems them unholy. Naturally we're moving into the corrupt/abuses power catagory here.

Baron/Count/Duke. Has the power to trail crimes in his own domain unless interfered with by the local count/duke/king/church, which is unsual unless important. Yeah, sure, you're not literally bringing the axe down, but you're the one that's having people execute for whatever real or imaginary reason.

Don't worry too much about trying to fit in with the rest of the group. As long as people are ROUGHLY in the same social circles, or CAN be, then it's good.

Potentially, what you're looking at, is using your existing idea and trying to make it a little more "court worthy".

I suppose. Take head-chopper guy, add 250 years and where is he? What are his goals? To chop heads off until 2070? I wonder how many heads he'd remove.

I think you may have a problem long term I guess, without some long-term goals/thinking.

Anyway, tried to mix negative with postive.

[#1!]

You raise some pretty good points. I've thougth about it and, yeah, needs some tweaking for sure.

I'm partial to the witch hunter idea, personally. Also, I didn't know that 2 other PCs had justice, figured it was just another. I'll write something else up soonish. Just realize, the way I make PCs, I don't really write in-depth, detailing goals and what-not. I figured you would have realized that by now. Also because it says "initial idea" in the title.

Anyway, gunna change shit up.

[^^Truth]

Just realize, the way I make PCs, I don't really write in-depth, detailing goals and what-not.

I do know this, yes.

It's probably why you get bored of your PCs so quickly. Because they're not thought of as long-term. Remind me, which was your last PC that succeeded?

I mean, it's not major if people change PCs. Unlike D&D this style of game welcomes new characters into it without much of a problem - since people travel around a lot - but would be nice to keep some form of core group.

Righty-o however, looking forward to whatever you sandwich up.

[^^Truth]

Just wanna add that.

You say you don't write up your goals yadayadayada, that's fine. You see the problem here is that you shouldn't HAVE to write up your PCs goals for me to get a good idea of them.

Example. Trom and Mike have said nothing of their PCs goals, but I have a good understanding of what their PCs will be doing already, I can see where they'll want to take their PCs by 1900's, in what kind of role they'll exist then (if alive).

Yours and Joes I can't.

I'm doing things in order of priority is all. Hope that makes sense.

[#1!]

Decided to go with a variety approach rather than focus on one concept. More to work with, kinda thing. Nationalities to be decided later.

Concept #1: Witch hunter

A soft-spoken, upbeat fellow who tries to do as much good as he can where ever he goes. An extensive traveller, he has criss-crossed whatever nation he resides from. He comes from a high-born background and was sent to become a man of the cloth. He completed his training/whatever, but decided that he wanted to make the world a better place in a more hands-on manner. So, he makes a living by doing the Lord's work...by removing "witches" from the land.

Virtue: Faith
Vice: Gluttony (alcholicism)

Concept #2: Merchant Prince

Comes from a low-to-mid level noble family. Has made his family, and especially himself, filthy rich through trade and merchantilism. He's thus risen very much in status, becoming an incredibly powerful lord/duke/baron/etc. He's a hard-working (hence his personal wealth) and social fellow, but is nonetheless an insensitive jackass, concerned for himself above all. (Basically, think Malachi)

Virtue: Hope? To be decided
Vice: Any one of: Envy, Pride, Greed, Gluttony. To be decided

Concept #3: Bandit King

A personable and devious Robin Hood figure, giving a portion of his haul to the poor so that he can have a rabble to cheer him on. He styles himself a hero of the people but is a total cunt, doing what he can to gain more from others while being cheered on and liked by the peasantry. Styles himself a refined gentleman, keeping objects of art and beauty in his camp. Has an assortment of cut-throat followers keen on stealing from others. (Basically, think Carcer)

Virtue: Hope or Charity? To be decided
Vice: Most likely Pride, but could easily be Envy or Greed. To be decided

Concept #4: Infamous Thief

Basically, similar to #3 except in a city setting. Think a mafioso/mafia don, gang leader, or criminal syndicate head kinda type.

Concept #5: Medicine Man

An intelligent, open-minded man of the cloth devoted to the healing arts. Has become somewhat famous for his medical talents, having clients in a number of noble families, even some with crowns on their heads. Is a fastidious knowledge-seeker, utilizing practices and procedures from outside the Church for the greater good of Christendom. He has no love for his nay-sayers, those who doubt his skills or knowledge, those who claim that he is a heretic for utilizing "forbidden" knowledge, those who call him "witch" and "pagan". Though chatty and irreverant at times, the good healer has the best intentions of his patients at heart.

Virtue: Charity, Hope, Fortitude, or Temperance? To be decided
Vice: Pride or Wrath? To be decided

(#5 kinda steps on both one of Mike's PCs (the Swiss-German guy) and Trom's, I think. Still, wanted to throw it out as a poss. PC idea for myself)

[^^Truth]

Okay.

Yeah, liking things from your end much more now. Some nice write ups there indeed. I have a selection of alternative ideas for each concept, but there's little point me going into vast detail until you center a little on one or another.

You're right about #5 however. It clashes quite highly with Trom's idea and ever-so-slightly with Mike's second, thus probably not a good idea, but it could be adjustable to work out if you wished to use that one.

There's is potentially a slight problem, and this goes for everyone else as well, with the Witchhunter however. It's just a matter of mindset more than anything else. Naturally, unless the PCs do not wish it completely, one of the early goals will be discovery then pursuit of vampirism as it were. It will not be forced upon the PCs, they will have to seek it out.

Perhaps #1 would be against this? Instead seeking to kill/slay whatever? It's not a major problem really, I can think of ways in game to run it, but anyone stubbornly against living forever and getting to wear cool sunglasses and using witty one-liners might be problematic?

[illumination]

to risk muddying the waters, i think iain's 100% priority above all others is getting a PC that you like zert, a badly fitting PC but one that zerts loves forever is better than the other way around.

on the question of why zert doesnt get on with his characters long term, maybe we need another thread for that, but its a big drama imo and needs working out. having said that, as i recall iain had similar problems for a long time so maybe he is the best source of advice on the issue.

i think its critical to try and think of a character thats sufficiently complex, in terms of personality to be interesting for a long time.

i also think perhaps the main problem with the last few PCs has been that they dont seem to have the potential to evolve and become something else.

for eg. i remained interested in the larue character because as it gained new magiks she was beginning to be tempted in the pursuit of power for powers sake. so i was genuinely unsure if the PC would end up NG or LE in the end. which kept me interested as the personality was continuously evolving along.

i think character development and change might be a key thing, and naturally characters that are complex, and fairly social always help. (chell not so social eh). vampire being a social/political game, id advise thinking along those lines in the first place. concepts 1 and 2 look the most handy to me so far...

[Tromador]

for eg. i remained interested in the larue character because as it gained new magiks she was beginning to be tempted in the pursuit of power for powers sake. so i was genuinely unsure if the PC would end up NG or LE in the end. which kept me interested as the personality was continuously evolving along.

Odd you should say that, one of the interesting things in the Larue/Celandina relationship was the undercurrent of 'power corrupts'. I saw Celandina growing in power, but with Larue's influence key to which way she eventually went.

Personally, though option #5 is basically similar to mine, any of options 2-5 work well as potential vampires and I can think of official sourcebook NPCs (e.g. re concept #4 - Al Capone) who fit those ideas.

Option #1 is a little more difficult. We are assuming characters know nothing about vampires at the start, but through the campaign, they are 'awakened' to the world of darkness and eventually choose a path of vampirism. Depending on the character's definition of a witch, this is likely to be difficult for him. On the other hand, I could see the possibility for one so obsessed with the idea of destroying witches, that the immortality of vampirism would allow them to destroy witches forever - bringing them into conflict with mages, both mortal and immortal in nature. Such a character does run a risk of being a bit one-dimensional, but has possibilities.

[^^Truth]

i think its critical to try and think of a character thats sufficiently complex, in terms of personality to be interesting for a long time.

i also think perhaps the main problem with the last few PCs has been that they dont seem to have the potential to evolve and become something else.

Quoted for truth.

[#1!]

Heh. I'm not surprised that everybody is pointing out the flaws in #1, but don't worry. I figured them out like right after I wrote it up. Reckoned I'd keep it there just as a backup concept.

I'm much more partial to 2, 3, and 4. Hell, 2 and 4 can even be combined pretty easily.

[^^Truth]

#2 and #4 is a good combination, as discussed, that I'd recommend.

If you are going with that and relatively happy I'll move on to looking at Joe's PC idea properly.

A yes or no is good, you can do the proper write up for the new concept when you have time.

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